Dalian’s clean, but is it really open?
Part of what drew me to Dalian over bigger, possibly more lucrative cities was it’s reputation for being more livable than first-tier locales like Beijing and Shanghai. “Clean and open” is almost an unofficial slogan, and I find myself using it quite often. The descriptors require a caveat—”by Chinese standards”—but compared to other places I’ve traveled in the Middle Kingdom, Dalian holds up.
Chinese may not see it that way, though. Samuel, a well-traveled IT worker who hails from Benxi, laid it out for me in English corner Wednesday night.
“In other cities, you work for a few years, you get a house, start a family, you start to say, ‘This is my city,’” he said. “In Dalian, even if you live here, have a family here, you’re still not Dalianese. So, I don’t think Dalian is open.”
I turned to the two women at the table, one from Changchun, the other from Yinkou. They nodded in agreement.
This had me curious, so I put it to my oral English students today. Sure enough, Dalian people have a reputation of looking down their noses at newcomers.
This could all be unfettered snobbery, the same sort displayed between Los Angeles- and San Francisco-ren and probably shared in most moderately-successful Chinese cities. But maybe it’s bigger.
“The Mongols and Manchu became Chinese after invading,” Samuel said (a dubious claim, but common enough). “The best advantage of China is to merges, to bring the best together.”
Other insights about Dalian, from non-locals:
- Women here are tall, beautiful and have great (white) skin
- Prices are rising faster than income
- Dalian people are perhaps a bit too friendly with the Japanese
- Bus and taxi drivers are rude, indifferent, possibly crazy
- The local dialect is (surprise!) a mess to understand
I’m leaving my own commentary out of this as much as possible, except to say that Dalian has treated me well, for the most part. I’m more curious about other cities. Is this just a Dalian thing?
May 12th, 2007 at 12:20 am
I’ve had this discussion with some non-Dalian co-workers in Dalian.
Their perspective was that Dalian doesn’t really have any character that they identify with, it doesn’t really have any “Dalian feeling.” Maybe it’s just the sterile conrete and lack of landmarks, or neato historical spots.
But for example, Qingdao has it’s beer and germanness.
Harbin has it’s beer and Ice festival and russianness.
Dandong has north korea.
Dalian doesn’t really have anything to set itself apart.
No particular mood or atmosphere.
And thus, it doesn’t feel like home, no matter how long you’ve been here.
(Just one take on it)
May 12th, 2007 at 3:34 am
I am a person from Dalian, I agree what you said about the local people don’t accept newcomers, but compare other cities which cities’s size smaler like Dalian, who will say they are sure that their cities more open than Dalian. And you made a mistake about we are close with Japanese, actually we like korea much more than Japanese. We hate Japan’s goverment but we don’t treat Japanese bad, because the Japanese who are in Dalian, they didn’t kill people, most of them are nice too, this way enough to shows Dalian people more open than other cities.Even we don’t like Japan goverment, but we know most Japanese in Dalian they are not goverment officer, they’er just nomal person, don’t judge a person by their nationality. Doesn’t matter where people come from, they are nice, we treat them nice, they’re not nice, we will not treat them nice either!
May 12th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Rick,
The issue of short history did come up a bit, but most of the comments I heard were about people. Even a friend from Shanghai said Dalian people suck. Again, that could be just mutual snobbery.
Cici,
My students brought up the Japanese; I’m just passing it along. I’ve certainly heard local people say nasty things about Japan, too. I found it interesting that non-Dalianese thought local people were more “Japan-friendly,” and viewed this as a bad thing.
May 12th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
You make Dalian sound like every other city in China.
Actually, my wife and I were in Dalian last May Day and we were very impressed with the local environment and people. Of course, we were only there for a week, but that short time and our limited dealings with the locals left us with a very good impression of the city and its people.
May 12th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
By “too friendly with the Japanese” they might mean that there are a lot of Japanese clubs in Dalian where Japanese gentlemen can go and “mingle” with Chinese ladies. I don’t know. Otherwise, I can’t imagine what they are talking about. Is it “friendly” to allow Japanese businesses to open up here? Is it because they don’t march thru the streets denouncing Japan? Maybe you could ask those students/outsiders of yours to expand on what they mean. I find it an interesting topic anyway!
May 13th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
I am working in Beijing,but not from around here,Athough I’ve just lived here for less than half an year,I think beijingnese are a little bit more friendly than shanghainese.all we know is that shanghai is the most modernest city of chinese,it should be the economic center of china,maybe it’s because of that,the shanghainese are always having more superiority complex,and look down upon the newcomers so that the ppl from other cities can’t never feel like home .I never been to Dalian,but I have been to many other cities on the south of China,I prefer Hangzhou,it’s a beautiful city,and local ppl are friendly with newcomers,the girls are always very hot,maybe not as tall as Dalian girls,I bet their skins must be more healthy,nicer and whiter than Dalian girls’.Chinese perverb says “自å¤æ±Ÿå—出美女â€,I don’t know the standard translation,if I translate it literally,it could be”Jiang Nan produces cuties from of old”I quite think the most beauties are from the south of China.
May 14th, 2007 at 1:31 am
Chris Waugh,
Like I said, Dalian has treated me well, for the most part. Actually, one way I usually spot out of towners is by their utter shock at seeing foreigners about. Most Dalianren are used to laowai.
Kim,
I tried to get more detail on the Japan claim but all that came out was fuzz, the usual bit about history, and a few more assertions of distaste.
Ray,
I haven’t spent enough time in Beijing to make a proper comparison, and I have never been to Shanghai, I’m sorry to say. Shanghai’s reputation for producing first-rate snobs does precede it far and wide, though.
May 14th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Based on just a few visits to Dalian and on working on a few matters with lawyers there, I do get the sense that the city is more open to Japanese businesses than elsewhere in China. The lawyers in Dalian speak approvingly/proudly of Japanese businesses liking their city, while the lawyers in other Chinese cities seem proud to reject Japanese business. Dalian definitely has more than its share of striking women.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:07 am
@ Chris Thanks for trying anyway! It’shard to get beyond the fuzz,you’d need at least an hour long informal chat about it and you can’t do that in lessons obviously.
@China Law Blog Well, I wonder if you could help out a Japanese owned Indian curry restaurant called Abashi Curry who opened up recently and have been shut down twice for ridiculous and obviously trumped up reasons? I don’t know who they pissed off or how, but everyone agrees it’s not fair. If you manage to help them I will thank you eternally because I love curry and naan and because it’s 5 minutes walk from my flat!
May 17th, 2007 at 2:00 am
Kim –
That curry restaurant would probably be best served by retaining local Chinese counsel.
May 18th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
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June 4th, 2007 at 9:57 am
The picture,where is it?